Comments on: Knock-off n: An unauthorized copy or imitation, Hmmmmmmmmmmm ?? http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/ Straight talk on contemporary design & architecture Sun, 27 Jun 2010 21:11:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: sandrar http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-923 sandrar Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:39:30 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-923 Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog. :) Cheers! Sandra. R. Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post… nice! I love your blog. :) Cheers! Sandra. R.

]]> By: Steve http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-912 Steve Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:05:48 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-912 Herman Miller, Cassini, et al. purchased designs now dating back decades. The designs have outlived their designers, whose interviews and biographies demonstrate that they were interested in designing products that would bring art and modern design -- and its beauty and function -- into the lives of the masses. Ageless designs like the Eames 670 continue to be in demand, and as such, continue to be profitable. They were and are simple, economical, functional and yet aesthetically pleasing designs made with an eye toward factory mass production and everyday use in homes and businesses. I believe it is safe to assume that the Eames had no idea their 670 lounge would ultimately be obtainable only by the rich. Great designs are imitated for many reasons having nothing to do with profit. Moreover, design, however great, should be improved upon (e.g., a lounge that is larger or that reclines) without fear of reproval. Why should great design be available only to a privileged few? Personally, I'd rather have and enjoy the design for a reasonable price than worry whether a houseguest might notice the absence of a Noguchi signature on an otherwise beautiful and functional table. Homage to or improvement upon the design intent is paramount. A polo shirt is a polo shirt whether it bears a crocodile logo; its design and function are the same. If one wishes to impress others with the logo, they may pay the price for it, but should not attempt to justify the premium by convincing themselve that the logo makes the product inherently superior. Are you buying the design? Or the label? Is the design any less beautiful because it lacks a signature or label? Should those who wish to more economically (sensibly?) incorporate beautiful, functional designs into their daily lives be looked upon as simply trying to telegraph wealth (the fake Rolex analogy). To this design enthusiast, such an elitist, paternalistic, and pedantic viewpoint places (forgive me) form over substance. Herman Miller, Cassini, et al. purchased designs now dating back decades. The designs have outlived their designers, whose interviews and biographies demonstrate that they were interested in designing products that would bring art and modern design — and its beauty and function — into the lives of the masses.

Ageless designs like the Eames 670 continue to be in demand, and as such, continue to be profitable. They were and are simple, economical, functional and yet aesthetically pleasing designs made with an eye toward factory mass production and everyday use in homes and businesses.
I believe it is safe to assume that the Eames had no idea their 670 lounge would ultimately be obtainable only by the rich.

Great designs are imitated for many reasons having nothing to do with profit. Moreover, design, however great, should be improved upon (e.g., a lounge that is larger or that reclines) without fear of reproval.

Why should great design be available only to a privileged few? Personally, I’d rather have and enjoy the design for a reasonable price than worry whether a houseguest might notice the absence of a Noguchi signature on an otherwise beautiful and functional table. Homage to or improvement upon the design intent is paramount. A polo shirt is a polo shirt whether it bears a crocodile logo; its design and function are the same. If one wishes to impress others with the logo, they may pay the price for it, but should not attempt to justify the premium by convincing themselve that the logo makes the product inherently superior. Are you buying the design? Or the label? Is the design any less beautiful because it lacks a signature or label? Should those who wish to more economically (sensibly?) incorporate beautiful, functional designs into their daily lives be looked upon as simply trying to telegraph wealth (the fake Rolex analogy).

To this design enthusiast, such an elitist, paternalistic, and pedantic viewpoint places (forgive me) form over substance.

]]> By: Mike http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-527 Mike Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:32:44 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-527 Dear original poster,       The fact that the original table was designed by noguchi and HM purchased the licensing does really mean much. In fact, your tables are more expensive simply because you can charge more for putting the name on the table, that's it. The quality is in many cases equal to to less quality than may tables on the market. I was able to purchase a "knock-off" table which was actually heat treated for scratch resistance for less than $600. The real noguchi doesn't even offer a scratch resistant option. What good is having a real scratched noguchi table in 30 years anyway when you will certainly be offering new ones in 30 years anyway?  My advice is to get an unlicensed noguchi, they last at least as long and are half price. Dear original poster,       The fact that the original table was designed by noguchi and HM purchased the licensing does really mean much. In fact, your tables are more expensive simply because you can charge more for putting the name on the table, that’s it. The quality is in many cases equal to to less quality than may tables on the market. I was able to purchase a "knock-off" table which was actually heat treated for scratch resistance for less than $600. The real noguchi doesn’t even offer a scratch resistant option. What good is having a real scratched noguchi table in 30 years anyway when you will certainly be offering new ones in 30 years anyway?  My advice is to get an unlicensed noguchi, they last at least as long and are half price.

]]> By: Jed http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-541 Jed Thu, 31 May 2007 14:00:18 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-541 I am the proud owner of a knockoff Eames Lounge Chair. It is slightly larger, more comfortable and reclines, while looking like the original. So while not strictly a "copy" it is an improved adaptation of the original. As a person who loves  space age modern furniture, I would go for the knockoff Noguchi table. The whole concept of modern furniture was to find simpler ways of producing furinture so that high style couid be available to a mass market.  To pay $1500 for a table or almost $4,000 for a lounge chair is ridiculous and unattainable for a new homeowner like myself. After all, I am going to sit on the chair and use the table. I am the proud owner of a knockoff Eames Lounge Chair. It is slightly larger, more comfortable and reclines, while looking like the original. So while not strictly a "copy" it is an improved adaptation of the original. As a person who loves  space age modern furniture, I would go for the knockoff Noguchi table. The whole concept of modern furniture was to find simpler ways of producing furinture so that high style couid be available to a mass market.  To pay $1500 for a table or almost $4,000 for a lounge chair is ridiculous and unattainable for a new homeowner like myself. After all, I am going to sit on the chair and use the table.

]]> By: Alex Woodby http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-10 Alex Woodby Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:35:36 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-10 Shouldn't copyright/trademark or whatever expire after a time so that the masses can afford the piece?  I mean drug companies spend millions developing drugs like xanax but after 7 years it's open to anyone to produce the same thing, why should a designer hold sole title forever?  To encourage the "eliteness" of the piece?  Yes, true, but the original would still be an original.  Has the ready availability of a Monet print decreased the value of the original?  Then again, there is only ONE original painting.  Maybe if there were affordable licensing fees for knockoffs, so that less rich consumers could afford to get, perhaps a somewhat lower quality but design inspired by the original? Just my 2c worth.  I too very much love alot of these modern designs but cannot afford 4k for a chair.  Shouldn’t copyright/trademark or whatever expire after a time so that the masses can afford the piece?  I mean drug companies spend millions developing drugs like xanax but after 7 years it’s open to anyone to produce the same thing, why should a designer hold sole title forever?  To encourage the "eliteness" of the piece?  Yes, true, but the original would still be an original.  Has the ready availability of a Monet print decreased the value of the original?  Then again, there is only ONE original painting.  Maybe if there were affordable licensing fees for knockoffs, so that less rich consumers could afford to get, perhaps a somewhat lower quality but design inspired by the original? Just my 2c worth.  I too very much love alot of these modern designs but cannot afford 4k for a chair. 

]]> By: Ben http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-9 Ben Thu, 07 Dec 2006 03:36:32 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-9 Sorry, but I'd really like a Noguchi coffee table, and it's $1200!! I understand the rights of artists and designers, but can you not see the hypocrisy of charging over $1000 for some wood and glass? Should this table only be available to the very rich? What if I wanted to make one myself, is that wrong? I'm sorry but knockoffs, in my experience, only exist when something is ridiculously, hypocritically, overpriced, and the actual materials to make it cost so much less that it'd be stupid not to make a fake version, that would make my living room look just as nice, and that's really all I care about, not if it's got the right signature and I spent more money than most Africans make in a year on it. Sorry, but I’d really like a Noguchi coffee table, and it’s $1200!! I understand the rights of artists and designers, but can you not see the hypocrisy of charging over $1000 for some wood and glass? Should this table only be available to the very rich? What if I wanted to make one myself, is that wrong? I’m sorry but knockoffs, in my experience, only exist when something is ridiculously, hypocritically, overpriced, and the actual materials to make it cost so much less that it’d be stupid not to make a fake version, that would make my living room look just as nice, and that’s really all I care about, not if it’s got the right signature and I spent more money than most Africans make in a year on it.

]]> By: Ross Taylor http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-8 Ross Taylor Wed, 06 Sep 2006 01:10:10 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-8 <p>In response to John M in Vancouver.</p> <p>Well, it's great to hear from someone that speaks from the heart, that doesn't just mumble and complain under his/her breath, but that takes a stance that proves that by putting your money where your mouth is, you can make a difference in this world. I applaud Mr. M for taking a stand for what he believes in and making a decision that proves that even if he has to pay more for his Tolomeo Mega, dammit he is not going to support the kind of mindless, arrogant, condescending banter that he came across at Modernplanet.net. (This message is in no way meant to be arrogant and/or condescending - I really mean what I say)</p> <p>When I wrote my original response to Cathy, it really wasn't my intention to be arrogant. I guess being so close to the subject on a day to day basis, I view the subject of Knock-offs, like a candy store clerk might view a candy thief and in that regard, their opinion might be that if a thief doesn't know why it is wrong to steal candy, then it is most likely beyond them to try and educate them. Keep in mind that the "arrogant and condescending" portion of what I said was a very small portion of what i had to say and from my biased point of view, was a very small part of my message. Luckily for me, Cathy was not as insulted by my comments as Mr. M.</p> <p>Also keep in mind that GabrielRoss.com has a customer Service staff that far exceeds my own customer service skills, so before you write us off entirely, give them a try, they're more than happy to answer any questions and more often than not, go above and beyond to make sure that all of our clients are satisfied.</p> <p>We have plenty of letters from very happy clients.</p> <p>On another note, this blog has been sitting idle for way too long, so I also thank Mr. M for giving me the kick in the ass that i needed to get back to punching the keys.</p> <p> More to come in the way of another post soon. Let's put the knock-off issue to bed.</p> In response to John M in Vancouver.

Well, it’s great to hear from someone that speaks from the heart, that doesn’t just mumble and complain under his/her breath, but that takes a stance that proves that by putting your money where your mouth is, you can make a difference in this world. I applaud Mr. M for taking a stand for what he believes in and making a decision that proves that even if he has to pay more for his Tolomeo Mega, dammit he is not going to support the kind of mindless, arrogant, condescending banter that he came across at Modernplanet.net. (This message is in no way meant to be arrogant and/or condescending – I really mean what I say)

When I wrote my original response to Cathy, it really wasn’t my intention to be arrogant. I guess being so close to the subject on a day to day basis, I view the subject of Knock-offs, like a candy store clerk might view a candy thief and in that regard, their opinion might be that if a thief doesn’t know why it is wrong to steal candy, then it is most likely beyond them to try and educate them. Keep in mind that the "arrogant and condescending" portion of what I said was a very small portion of what i had to say and from my biased point of view, was a very small part of my message. Luckily for me, Cathy was not as insulted by my comments as Mr. M.

Also keep in mind that GabrielRoss.com has a customer Service staff that far exceeds my own customer service skills, so before you write us off entirely, give them a try, they’re more than happy to answer any questions and more often than not, go above and beyond to make sure that all of our clients are satisfied.

We have plenty of letters from very happy clients.

On another note, this blog has been sitting idle for way too long, so I also thank Mr. M for giving me the kick in the ass that i needed to get back to punching the keys.

 More to come in the way of another post soon. Let’s put the knock-off issue to bed.

]]> By: John http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-7 John Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:42:41 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-7 Wow, that was possibly the most arrogant and condescending response to an innocent question I've read recently. I'd say your approach to customer service could <em>definitely </em>use a little "tweaking." You had the perfect opportunity to educate this person about the intrinsic value of an original piece of fine furniture -- and possibly turn her into a lifetime customer -- but instead you took the low road, hoping to make yourself look more important by belittling her. To be honest, I'm a bit weary of the BC "fine furniture" dealers who fancy themselves to be somehow more important than the rest of the world. And by the way, I ended up on this blog because I was about to purchase a Tolmeo mega floor lamp and an Eames molded plywood lounge chair for my condo from your shopping site, but I think I'll head on over to your more friendly competition. John M Vancouver Wow, that was possibly the most arrogant and condescending response to an innocent question I’ve read recently. I’d say your approach to customer service could definitely use a little "tweaking." You had the perfect opportunity to educate this person about the intrinsic value of an original piece of fine furniture — and possibly turn her into a lifetime customer — but instead you took the low road, hoping to make yourself look more important by belittling her. To be honest, I’m a bit weary of the BC "fine furniture" dealers who fancy themselves to be somehow more important than the rest of the world. And by the way, I ended up on this blog because I was about to purchase a Tolmeo mega floor lamp and an Eames molded plywood lounge chair for my condo from your shopping site, but I think I’ll head on over to your more friendly competition. John M Vancouver

]]> By: Ross Taylor http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-6 Ross Taylor Tue, 04 Apr 2006 20:29:22 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-6 Hi Wendy, Keep an eye on this post over the next few days. I definately plan to talk a bit about the upcoming release from Herman Miller of the Eames Lounge chair and Ottoman in Santos Palisander Veneer, which will be the new Rosewood version. This is big news as this also happens to be the 50th anniversary for the Eames Lounge chair. Hi Wendy,

Keep an eye on this post over the next few days. I definately plan to talk a bit about the upcoming release from Herman Miller of the Eames Lounge chair and Ottoman in Santos Palisander Veneer, which will be the new Rosewood version. This is big news as this also happens to be the 50th anniversary for the Eames Lounge chair.

]]> By: Wendy Hayes http://blog.gabrielross.com/2006/04/03/8/#comment-5 Wendy Hayes Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:56:22 +0000 http://www.modernplanet.net/2006/04/03/8/#comment-5 Hi I dont like buying knock-offs but often the price is so tempting. I bought a red 'Levis' shirt in Thailand, once, that caused all my laundry to go deep pink when I washed it! By the way have you heard the rumours that the Eames lounger from Herman Miller will be available in North America in Rosewood? Ive always wanted one. Hi

I dont like buying knock-offs but often the price is so tempting. I bought a red ‘Levis’ shirt in Thailand, once, that caused all my laundry to go deep pink when I washed it!

By the way have you heard the rumours that the Eames lounger from Herman Miller will be available in North America in Rosewood? Ive always wanted one.

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